Curse

Ninja OniX · Mar 12, 2006, 04:56 AM // 04:56

edited again- March 12

hey everyone, this is just a suggestion on new builds for rangers. Using your pet as your main attacker and the center of attention. Any suggestion would be great, so here we go.

Ranger/any profession(monk or elementlist would be my choice)
Beast Masteries- 16(12)+(1+3)
Expertise- 12
Wilderness Survival- rest of points

Skills: (suggestion of Ferocious strike)
Feral Lunge
Brutial Strike
Disrupting Lunge
Call of Haste
Call of Protection
Charm Animal
Comfort Animal
Resurrecting Signet

consider any skill or spell that will keep you alive(elementalist earth spells would be good for that) or add in some more effective killers such as poisn arrow.

Gear-
weapon- Staff or item with +10 energy
armour- Energy stuff

ok here it goes, start off with Call of Protection this will make your pet last. When you start targeting your enemy, use call of haste and keep it on(this shout can be kept because it last longer than recharge rate) When your pet starts in combat, use Feral Lunge and hopefully they will start bleeding, use Disrupting Stike if they use any spell. Keep using Feral Lunge when it recharges and when their health goes below 50% use Brutial Stike and it will deal massive damage, dont worry if they start running because your pet has Call of Haste on and will chase down the opponent. Revive pet if dead, i pefer Comfort animal over Revive animal (thanks for listing reasons why not to use Revive Animal below) because Revive Animal is easily inturrupted whereas Comfort animal will almost always revive your animal.

oh and either cast some protection spell or give it a kick by adding poisn arrow in the build.

And there you have it, the only problem i am having is the healing part. Suggestions and rating would be grateful.

There you have it!

Jenosavel · Mar 12, 2006, 05:13 AM // 05:13

There's a slight problem in that you can't have 10 Energy Storage on a ranger. You can't have any energy storage on a ranger.

Also, for a pet build you might want to have Charm Animal on your bar.

I think Symbiotic Bond isn't a great skill to have in PvP. Your pet won't take DP and can be rezed fairly painlessly, whereas you are a completely different story. On top of that, the pet has better armor than you anyway. There's no reason for you to be taking some of the pet's damage burden on yourself; it'd be nice if it could work the other way, where you would transfer some of your burden to the pet, but that's wishful thinking.

Then, and I promise it's the last thing I'm going to pick apart, Revive Animal is an aweful skill.

It really, truly is aweful and should only be used in the most specialized of builds. Even then I shy away from it. You're so much better off using Comfort Animal.

If you fixed though points, it wouldn't be a bad build though.

Ninja OniX · Mar 12, 2006, 05:24 AM // 05:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenosavel

There's a slight problem in that you can't have 10 Energy Storage on a ranger. You can't have any energy storage on a ranger.

Also, for a pet build you might want to have Charm Animal on your bar.

I think Symbiotic Bond isn't a great skill to have in PvP. Your pet won't take DP and can be rezed fairly painlessly, whereas you are a completely different story. On top of that, the pet has better armor than you anyway. There's no reason for you to be taking some of the pet's damage burden on yourself; it'd be nice if it could work the other way, where you would transfer some of your burden to the pet, but that's wishful thinking.

Then, and I promise it's the last thing I'm going to pick apart, Revive Animal is an aweful skill.

It really, truly is aweful and should only be used in the most specialized of builds. Even then I shy away from it. You're so much better off using Comfort Animal.

If you fixed though points, it wouldn't be a bad build though.

now how did i forget charmed animal...DUH

Ninja OniX · Mar 12, 2006, 05:27 AM // 05:27

ok its edited, but revive animal would give you more health back so it wont die again whereas comfort animal recharges your skills. Death of pet is 8 seconds and reviving with comfort animal is another 8 second, using revival animal would chop that in half and give pet hp. wouldnt you rather have that?

heist23 · Mar 12, 2006, 06:39 AM // 06:39

well, first off you're running an E/R with 16 BM, which isn't possible....

and...i think people are more suspect to go after the owner, and not the pet. it's ingrained into people's heads that pets are just an annoying gnat in your face.

it looks like this build is set to deal some serious damage, which is a good thing. but, it's best to be able to do something alongside with your pet...maybe putting some points into marksmanship, or something. that's just my opinion, though.

SnipiousMax · Mar 12, 2006, 06:56 AM // 06:56

You also need to consider how you're gonna get away from people when they decided that killing your pet isn't stoping you from rezing it. I'd at least have either Whirling Defense or Throw dirt in there.

Druids Arrow · Mar 12, 2006, 08:52 AM // 08:52

How do you have access to expertise and energy storage?

Xioden · Mar 12, 2006, 11:45 AM // 11:45

My build for an E/R beastmaster is:

Pred. Pounce
Brutal Strike
Feral Lunge
Call of Haste
Troll Unguent
Symbiotic Bond
Charm Animal
Res. Signet

12 Beast Mastery
12+1+1 Energy Storage
9+ Element of choice (I go earth for if I feel like throwing Obsidian Flame for an extra damage spike).

Symbiotic bond over Comfort simply because people 95% of the time ignore the pet anyway, and when they don't the +3 regen and half damage is great (and the half damage is nothing troll can't handle). The lack of a rez jumps out as a major concern obviously, but at least for RA (where I've been using it) the need hasn't come up too many times anyway, once or twice in the kill point match, but with symbiotic they need more than one person on the pet, and if they have multiple people on it they're likely to be hurting pretty badly already.

Jenosavel · Mar 12, 2006, 05:05 PM // 17:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninja OniX

ok its edited, but revive animal would give you more health back so it wont die again whereas comfort animal recharges your skills. Death of pet is 8 seconds and reviving with comfort animal is another 8 second, using revival animal would chop that in half and give pet hp. wouldnt you rather have that?

The 6 second cast on Revive Animal makes it so that, from my experiences, you should expect it to get interrupted at least half of the time. Also, with its 20 second recharge, a single interrupt on it hurts bad as it will mean you are now stuck for 20 seconds without your pet. The recharge also hurts it, because if the enemy team has decided to take out your pet (which they are more inclined to do if they see large numbers coming from your pet such as with Brutal Strike), you will need your rez again well before 20 seconds, regardless of what defenses you have on it.

Comfort Animal, on the other hand, has a 1 second cast and so is almost never interrupted. Even if it does get interrupted, it only has a 1 second recharge so you'll be trying to res the pet again very quickly. Also, the 8 seconds of blacked out skills is still 8 seconds that your pet is up and running towards its target, or starting to attack its target. Provided you don't have a Hearty pet, you can't ignore the normal attack damage of the pet and count those 8 seconds as entirely useless.

I believe there is no need for concern with Comfort Animal not bringing the pet back at full health in comparison to Revive Animal. Comfort Animal brings the pet back at over half health, which is more than enough to survive stray damage. As I said before, if the enemy team decices to focus on your pet, it is going to die anyway, so having the faster reses becomes more important than a slower more potent res.

Also, with regards to Symbiotic Bond, pets are usually not targeted before their masters and have such high armor that with Call of Protection up, Symbiotic Bond becomes unneccessary, especially if you run this as an elementalist primary. People will stick to you like glue and tear you apart, since when given the choice of taking out an AL 60 target or an AL 80 target with ~15 absorbtion (and possibly halved damage if you really are using Symbiotic), there is no question. A dead master means a pet that can't dish out pet attacks and if the master will die 10x faster than the pet, then the enemy will simply wipe out the master.

Also, an elementalist primary would have no Expertise and would be limited to 12 Beast Mastery, which would hurt the build immeasurably. Expertise is a far superior attribute line for a Beast Master than Energy Storage, because while Energy Storage will increase your maximum energy, if you're dealing with skills only (as this build is) Expertise increases not only your maximum energy but also your energy regeneration.

Quote:

My build for an E/R beastmaster is:

Pred. Pounce
Brutal Strike
Feral Lunge
Call of Haste
Troll Unguent
Symbiotic Bond
Charm Animal
Res. Signet

12 Beast Mastery
12+1+1 Energy Storage
9+ Element of choice (I go earth for if I feel like throwing Obsidian Flame for an extra damage spike).

Symbiotic bond over Comfort simply because people 95% of the time ignore the pet anyway, and when they don't the +3 regen and half damage is great (and the half damage is nothing troll can't handle). The lack of a rez jumps out as a major concern obviously, but at least for RA (where I've been using it) the need hasn't come up too many times anyway, once or twice in the kill point match, but with symbiotic they need more than one person on the pet, and if they have multiple people on it they're likely to be hurting pretty badly already.

The problem with Symbiotic Bond on an elementalist Beast Master is that any enemy with half a brain is going to target the Elementalist first. Therefore, Symbiotic Bond is doing nothing when you need it most, and does a little something when you were already on top anyways. It would be much better to take a skill that will help in a pinch, such as some kind of self defense from the Earth line.

I also seriously question the wisdom of shooting for Energy Storage over Expertise. Expertise reduces the cost of every skill currently on your bar, which in effect increases not only your maximum energy but also your energy regeneration. Thus it becomes much more effective to play as a ranger Beast Master than an elementalist one. This is especially true if you come across any energy denial, or use any energy management skills.

For example, take the skill Predator's Pounce. It can be used once every 5 seconds for 5 energy normally. This equates to 3 pips of energy degeneration (1 pip = 1 energy every 3 seconds) or 75% of an elementalist's natural energy regeneration. Under expertise of an equivalent value (using your 14 points here) Predator's Pounce costs only 2 energy, which equates to only 1.2 pips of degeneration or only 40% of a ranger's natural energy regeneration.

And that's a cheap skill. When you look at the cost of Brutal Strike, the ranger's effectiveness comes out much more sharply. While I know you won't be spamming Brutal Strike right from the get-go, crunching its numbers will give you a plainer view of why Expertise is so powerful.

Brutal Strike can be used once every 5 seconds for 10 energy normally. That's 6 pips of energy degen or 150% of the elementalist's natural energy regeneration. Under Expertise, however, it costs only 4 energy every 5 seconds, which is 2.4 pips of energy degen or only 80% of a ranger's natural energy regeneration.

When you start dealing with multiple attack skills on your bar, then the ranger's superiority is unquestionable. For example, before your opponent hits half health and you're using only Predator's Pounce and Feral Lunge, provided you use them to their fulll potential (every time they're charged and not overlapping on another), you're dealing with 4.5 pips of energy being used and an ele will be at .5 pips of energy degen. A ranger, on the other hand, would be using only 1.8 pips of energy, and thus would still be getting 1.2 pips of energy regeneration.

After your target hits half health and you add Brutal Strike to the mix, you're now dealing with 10.5 pips of energy being used. The ele will be sitting at 6.5 pips of energy degen. The ranger, however, is using only 4.2 pips of energy and thus is sitting at only 1.2 pip of energy degen.

Of course, the ele has a higher max energy which needs to be taken into account. At 6.5 pips of degen, 84 energy (14 Energy Storage + staff) lasts approximately 39 seconds. At 1.2 pips of energy degen, 32 energy lasts 80 seconds. This means the ranger will be able to continue spamming out the attacks twice as long as an elementalist.

Of course, the more skills we add into the mix the larger the gap between the ele and the ranger will grow.

fallot · Mar 12, 2006, 05:37 PM // 17:37

If you're going for a pure beastmastery build, there is no reason not to have a ranger primary. It will give you access to expertise and allow you to pump BM up to 16. Also, is there any reason you're not taking Ferocious Strike if the entire build is centered around your pet ?

Xioden · Mar 12, 2006, 11:31 PM // 23:31

Quote:

Symbiotic bond over Comfort simply because people 95% of the time ignore the pet anyway, and when they don't the +3 regen and half damage is great (and the half damage is nothing troll can't handle). The lack of a rez jumps out as a major concern obviously, but at least for RA (where I've been using it) the need hasn't come up too many times anyway, once or twice in the kill point match, but with symbiotic they need more than one person on the pet, and if they have multiple people on it they're likely to be hurting pretty badly already.

The problem with Symbiotic Bond on an elementalist Beast Master is that any enemy with half a brain is going to target the Elementalist first. Therefore, Symbiotic Bond is doing nothing when you need it most, and does a little something when you were already on top anyways. It would be much better to take a skill that will help in a pinch, such as some kind of self defense from the Earth line.

Again, This is from however many matches you can get out of ~23K faction in Random arenas, its worked great so far just on the behavior of people as soon as they realize the pets doing all the damage, I've had plenty of warriors up in my face turn when they realize after 2 seconds the pet is still hitting them as I'm running the other way.

Quote:

I also seriously question the wisdom of shooting for Energy Storage over Expertise. Expertise reduces the cost of every skill currently on your bar, which in effect increases not only your maximum energy but also your energy regeneration. Thus it becomes much more effective to play as a ranger Beast Master than an elementalist one. This is especially true if you come across any energy denial, or use any energy management skills.

For example, take the skill Predator's Pounce. It can be used once every 5 seconds for 5 energy normally. This equates to 3 pips of energy degeneration (1 pip = 1 energy every 3 seconds) or 75% of an elementalist's natural energy regeneration. Under expertise of an equivalent value (using your 14 points here) Predator's Pounce costs only 2 energy, which equates to only 1.2 pips of degeneration or only 40% of a ranger's natural energy regeneration.

And that's a cheap skill. When you look at the cost of Brutal Strike, the ranger's effectiveness comes out much more sharply. While I know you won't be spamming Brutal Strike right from the get-go, crunching its numbers will give you a plainer view of why Expertise is so powerful.

Brutal Strike can be used once every 5 seconds for 10 energy normally. That's 6 pips of energy degen or 150% of the elementalist's natural energy regeneration. Under Expertise, however, it costs only 4 energy every 5 seconds, which is 2.4 pips of energy degen or only 80% of a ranger's natural energy regeneration.

When you start dealing with multiple attack skills on your bar, then the ranger's superiority is unquestionable. For example, before your opponent hits half health and you're using only Predator's Pounce and Feral Lunge, provided you use them to their fulll potential (every time they're charged and not overlapping on another), you're dealing with 4.5 pips of energy being used and an ele will be at .5 pips of energy degen. A ranger, on the other hand, would be using only 1.8 pips of energy, and thus would still be getting 1.2 pips of energy regeneration.

After your target hits half health and you add Brutal Strike to the mix, you're now dealing with 10.5 pips of energy being used. The ele will be sitting at 6.5 pips of energy degen. The ranger, however, is using only 4.2 pips of energy and thus is sitting at only 1.2 pip of energy degen.

Of course, the ele has a higher max energy which needs to be taken into account. At 6.5 pips of degen, 84 energy (14 Energy Storage + staff) lasts approximately 39 seconds. At 1.2 pips of energy degen, 32 energy lasts 80 seconds. This means the ranger will be able to continue spamming out the attacks twice as long as an elementalist.

Of course, the more skills we add into the mix the larger the gap between the ele and the ranger will grow.

Yes and no. Rangers have a max of 32 energy, with a maxed out Expertise the 33-40% reduction puts their power pool upto ~80-96, essentially equivilent to the Elementalists, and at that point the extra pip of regen is what becomes the factor there. If your in a squeeze an extra boost of energy as an ele it is as simple as switching to a +15/-1 wand and/or +15/-1 offhand.

I dunno though, I'll pickup the superiors for Ranger and give that a go with the same build and see how it works, if it ends up even being more or less equal theres no reason not to be ranger as they're less squishy.

Leon_Ux-ixen · Mar 13, 2006, 12:19 AM // 00:19

thanks

Jenosavel · Mar 13, 2006, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xioden

Again, This is from however many matches you can get out of ~23K faction in Random arenas, its worked great so far just on the behavior of people as soon as they realize the pets doing all the damage, I've had plenty of warriors up in my face turn when they realize after 2 seconds the pet is still hitting them as I'm running the other way.

Even if it's not the most effective set-up, many things tend to work in RA. I never realized how truly stupid people were there until I decided to start learning monk today. Some of the things I saw people doing were insane.

If it works for you, run with it. Just know that there might be more effective stuff out there.

Quote:

Yes and no. Rangers have a max of 32 energy, with a maxed out Expertise the 33-40% reduction puts their power pool upto ~80-96, essentially equivilent to the Elementalists, and at that point the extra pip of regen is what becomes the factor there. If your in a squeeze an extra boost of energy as an ele it is as simple as switching to a +15/-1 wand and/or +15/-1 offhand.

The ranger may not be able to get a +30 energy boost in a pinch, but they can get a +15 energy boost in a pinch. Nothing's stopping you from having a second weapon set with an insightful staff (save for level of the insightful head you've got unlocked).

Quote:

I dunno though, I'll pickup the superiors for Ranger and give that a go with the same build and see how it works, if it ends up even being more or less equal theres no reason not to be ranger as they're less squishy.

Best way to learn's to try stuff out.

Good luck.

Cowboy Nastyman · Mar 13, 2006, 12:40 AM // 00:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xioden

My build for an E/R beastmaster is:

Pred. Pounce
Brutal Strike
Feral Lunge
Call of Haste
Troll Unguent
Symbiotic Bond
Charm Animal
Res. Signet

12 Beast Mastery
12+1+1 Energy Storage
9+ Element of choice (I go earth for if I feel like throwing Obsidian Flame for an extra damage spike).

Symbiotic bond over Comfort simply because people 95% of the time ignore the pet anyway, and when they don't the +3 regen and half damage is great (and the half damage is nothing troll can't handle). The lack of a rez jumps out as a major concern obviously, but at least for RA (where I've been using it) the need hasn't come up too many times anyway, once or twice in the kill point match, but with symbiotic they need more than one person on the pet, and if they have multiple people on it they're likely to be hurting pretty badly already.

problem with this build if you are going to use troll to heal you need points in wilderness survival, 3 regen just isnt going to do anything, also points in an elemental line arent going to help when all your skills are devoted to your pet

Xioden · Mar 13, 2006, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cowboy Nastyman

problem with this build if you are going to use troll to heal you need points in wilderness survival, 3 regen just isnt going to do anything, also points in an elemental line arent going to help when all your skills are devoted to your pet

Well thats why you don't try to remember builds from the top of your head lol, I'm actually using 12 BM, 8 WS, 8+1+1 Energy Storge, 9 whatever weapon.

The 8 in WS gives +7, and the 9 in the elemental line is just for a weapon, it could even go in marksmanship if you wanted to use a bow instead, just staves are a bit better suited mod wise, and it allows for switch to +15/-1 weapon and/or offhand if your in a pinch for energy.

Xioden · Mar 13, 2006, 03:02 AM // 03:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenosavel

Even if it's not the most effective set-up, many things tend to work in RA. I never realized how truly stupid people were there until I decided to start learning monk today. Some of the things I saw people doing were insane.

If it works for you, run with it. Just know that there might be more effective stuff out there.

Yea, I started originally just playing around with a couple skills I had unlocked previously and just changed it around from there, this is just what was working best at the time and change is always to be expected depending on what your running across (especially in RA where there are large shifts in what's being used). I just wish there was a use for a BM in Halls because it is a fun build to play but its really hard to find a role outside the 10-15 main builds that are used.

Quote:

The ranger may not be able to get a +30 energy boost in a pinch, but they can get a +15 energy boost in a pinch. Nothing's stopping you from having a second weapon set with an insightful staff (save for level of the insightful head you've got unlocked).

I actually hadn't even thought of that, and when you take Expertise into account a +15 boost turns into 35-40+ energy without losing the 2 pips of regen an elementalist would have to sacrifice, and theres also nothing stopping a ranger from carrying +15/-1's aswell. So definitely in that case the ranger is starting to look much better for it.

Ninja OniX · Mar 13, 2006, 03:35 AM // 03:35

hm...squeezing poisn arrow in there might not be a bad idea.

i'm actually crazy enough to almost try it

Inureface · Mar 13, 2006, 03:48 AM // 03:48

Why not ferocious strike instead of poison arrow? Why do people bother with Poison Arrow anyway?? Damn IVEX for putting that in their build.

Jenosavel · Mar 13, 2006, 02:37 PM // 14:37

Ferocious Strike really is much better than Poison Arrow. If you're looking to add poison to the build, go with Apply Poison, as it doesn't even need points in Wilderness Survival to be effective. Since you're slamming one target with arrows, the poison duration doesn't matter 'cause your next arrow will reapply the poison in ~2 seconds anyway.

Ferocious Strike not only adds nice damage, it's an insane energy engine for a ranger with expertise.

Also, for the skills you're using, 12 is a bad place to have expertise. Shoot for 13 if you can, since it's a much better break point. (12 is a break point for 10 energy skills, but you've only gone one of those you'll be using often. 13 is the break for your abundance of 5 energy skills)

Profano · Mar 14, 2006, 01:24 AM // 01:24

Hi all.
Actually i'm playing only with a Pet Build.
I hope you will find it interesting.

Ranger/Monk

Expertise: 7 (6+1)
Beast Mastery: 16 (12+4)
Wilderness Survival: 7 (6+1)
Smiting Prayers: 10

Call of Haste (Beast Mastery)
Ferocious Strike [Elite] (Beast Mastery)
Balthazar's Aura (Smiting Prayers)
Melandru's Assault (Beast Mastery)
Troll Unguent (Wilderness Survival) or Smite Hex (Smiting Prayers)
Comfort Animal (Beast Mastery)
Charm Animal (Beast Mastery)
Resurrection Signet ()

I use a bow for long distance shoot (for start pet attack), and a smiting staff with +5 energy and +7 armour vs physical attacks.

Testing in team arena with other 2 PS, the Pet do a lot of damage. I call the spike too, with Melandru's Assault al Ferocious Strike (the target must have 1 enchanct active, really easy to fiind).